Anti-Virus Software

Hi all,
I have recently dealt with 4 different infected computers. Each of these PC's had various anti-malware programs installed including McAfee, Norton and Webroot. Despite this so-called virus protection each of these PC's was infected with a ton of adware and 2 had trojans. Do ANY of these apps do ANYTHING to protect ones PC??

I have removed all of these apps and advised my clients to STOP using IE!! I installed Firefox with the NoScript addon on each of these PC's. I have been using Firefox for YEARS and have never been infected.

I recently tried Chrome which I think is DREADFUL! It allows all scripted webpage content whether you want all those flashing banners and pop-up nuisances or not. After all, Google is all about advertising so I wasn't surprised at how truly crappy a web browser it is. It wasn't one whit faster than Firefox either.

So what is the consensus? With the exception of MalwareBytes, which was very effective in removing all the garbage, are ANY of these other virus protection apps worthwhile?

Great website, BTW

Jim

Hi,

Having those anti-malware programs doesnt mean that your are 100% secure. Everyday there are hundreds and thousands new viruses being made. The Anti-malware programs have a hard time keeping up with all the new viruses and their variants. As long as your computer is connected to the internet you are vulnerable to malware but having an AV, firewall and anit-malware programs does provide you a certain amount of protection if they are kept up-to-date.

Personally i use Avira(free) as my AV, MBAM and Spybot S&D.
Avira AV can be downloaded from here: http://www.free-av.de/en/trialpay_download/1/avira_antivir_personal__free_antivirus.html

C25

Thanks for the link...but no thanks.

Installing this type of software gives the user a very FALSE sense of security and it greatly slows down most computers. Blocking scripting on websites you may be visiting for the first time is one of the best ways of avoiding a lot of intrusions and NOT opening email attachments, especially forwarded emails, should be the rule for everyone.


The Internets ain't kid stuff anymore!

Gary R summed it up nicely in THIS post.

Hi piezo,

I dont mean you harm. I agree with you that the internet is dangerous thus we have this site and the university here but if you surf through the net carefully you minimize your chance of getting compromised.

What AV you choose is up to you, i was just pointing out a free safe and well known AV that i use.
**************

I was looking for that post PegasusNY! Good job!

C25

Hello,

In my opinion any legitimate anti virus application is better than none at all. I also believe that a tiered security set up is essential to protecting your self online.

On the computer
1X Firewall.
1X Anti virus.
1X Anti spyware
1X updated HOSTS file
1X Firefox with adblock plus (all filters)
1X Limited user account

Between your computer and the internet
1X Router / hardware firewall.

On the internet
1X OpenDNS or similar provider

While having a set up similar to the above may reduce some of the risks online, something may still get past it all and damage the computer. In the end, the main problem exists between the keyboard and the chair.

I use OpenDNS for DNS on my Router.
For Firewall I use Zonealarm free.
Antivirus I use Avira free( I had Avg before was geat but now it junk).
Antispyware I use Malwarebytes Anti-Malware & AVZ antiviral(*).
HOSTS file I use Spywareblaster.
Web browser i use Firefox with adblock plus, NoScript & McAfee Site Adviser.

From what is I see in the IT field, friend and family is most ant-virus(Mcafee, Norton...etc) don't work alone it seem that Malwarebytes good to have.
But on my option I would install Malwaerbytes Anti-Malware, Firefox with adblock plus + NoScript, Spywareblaster and Avira free. I did this on my friend and family pc and they say it work great they never had a problem.

But if you are going the no Antivirus route you should install Malwaerbytes Anti-Malware free, Firefox with adblock plus + NoScript, Spywareblaster it don't use ram until you run the program. Or you can go to linux(Linux Mint is good).... I have never got anymore virus use Firefox with adblock plus + NoScript and Spywareblaster n my home computers (knock on wood).


* AVZ antiviral

Free tool offered by Kaspersky called AVZ developed by a Russian named Oleg Zaytsev. It started off as an independent anti-viral toolkit but Oleg went to Kaspersky, so now it is Kaspersky’s property. It is said that AVZ malware detection technology is built-in into AVPTool and the latest Kaspersky 2009 but actually AVZ has a lot more extra tools that is not included to the AVPTool and Kaspersky 2009.

AVZ is an anti-viral toolkit for system analysis and recovery. It’s main purpose is similar to Trojan Hunter or Ad-Aware which is meant to remove “malwares” but not “viruses”.

there website
http://www.z-oleg.com/secur/avz/avzguard.php (Website is in Russian but the app is both English and Russian.)

@piezo

Can I ask why the users came to you with their machines?

One of the main reasons for having an antivirus is to alert the user to the fact there is something on their system so they can seek professional assisstance or use other methods (i.e.MBAM,spybot S&D,aAd-Aware,etc) to remove the infection. A lot of antivirus detect things they cannot remove. I personaly think it is better to have an antivrus of some sort running on your system.

MRU Freshman,

These folks are friends of mine and know that I have been "into" PC computers for 20 years. My first internet account required a working knowledge of UNIX in order to move around the internet. I used to "fix" all the PC's where I worked.

In fact, they were telling me that they were NOT warned by their anti-virus software before their PC's went into a fit of redirections and false pop-ups warning them to go to certain websites and PAY to have them removed. I can report to you that none of these folks has had any problem since I cleaned their PC and installed the stuff I mentioned in my original post and it's been over a year now.

I say this tho, keep up the good work. Most people are absolutely skeerooed if they get a persistent malware problem. It is very complicated and time-intensive work to straighten out some of the messes they find themselves in and most have really no clue where to begin. (The FIRST thing I tell them is to disconnect their PC from the internet!!)

So I'm not dissing all antivirus software, just making the obvious observation that nearly all the folks that come here for help had this type of software on their PC's when they found themselves hopelessly infected.

I just don't see the value of it but then I am the only user of my PC which is a great advantage in avoiding pitfalls.

Because AV software doesn't stop all Malware, doesn't mean it doesn't stop any Malware. The risks of going online without an AV program installed still vastly exceed those of surfing with an AV program in place.

Most infections are contracted because the User did not work within the limitations of their protective programs, not because there was anything wrong with the program.

There is no 100% safe way to surf, if a User is not prepared to take responsibility for their own actions and expects a program to give them cart blanche to do whatever they want regardless of the risks.

Gary R.

Thanks for your comments, Gary.

When you say "the User did not work within the limitations of their protective programs" what exactly does that imply. Most people think that the software itself is responsible for protecting them from malware. Just what limitations should the user should be aware of beforehand? Are these limitations documented for each AVS program? I am unaware of what they might be myself.

One acquaintance was so reassured by Symantic's "guaranteed protection" whereby they (Symantic) would somehow pay to have his PC repaired, that he installed the software and then assumed (in my opinion, correctly) that he had nothing else to worry about. He was subsequently infected by what seemed to be a very common malware issue that IMHO should have been caught and neutralized by the AVS. (and subsequently was by MalwareBytes excellent software)

Anyway, I'm not trying to "beat a dead horse" here. I certainly would defer to your greater experience in this field. These are just some of my objections to the way this type of software is characterized by the folks selling it. The average user hasn't got a clue that he/she is doing anything wrong.

Jim

"piezo" wrote:
When you say "the User did not work within the limitations of their protective programs" what exactly does that imply.

As I've said in previous discussions on this type of subject, most Users have an unrealistic expectation of what level of protection to expect from an AV or AS program.

Pretty much all AV and AS protection is based on comparing incoming data streams to a set of pre-defined definitions and then blocking or removing any that correspond to known infections.

Obviously a system like this depends on an up to date set of definitions to be effective, but unfortunately the number of new infections (or new variations of old infections) being released onto the Internet every day, means that the AV and AS companies are playing catch up all the time, and there will always be a time slot where some infections remain unidentified by your AV and AS until a definition is produced for it.

To try and get round this situation, most AV and AS programs now contain a set of heuristic algorithms that "detect" infections by means of their behaviour rather than by any positive recognition of specific coding. Sadly this method is still prone to false positives, even though the heuristic algorithms are improving.

Most people think that the software itself is responsible for protecting them from malware.

Which is sadly where most people are wrong. AV and AS programs should be regarded more as a way to limit their risks of contracting malware rather than as a complete protection against malware.

This does not mean that you should not use an AV and AS program, as surfing without one is a whole lot riskier than surfing with them installed, but they do not now, and probably never will give 100% protection.

It would be helpful if the AV and AS producers pointed this out, but as they have a product to sell it's probably asking too much from them to expect them to make an admission that would affect sales.

One acquaintance was so reassured by Symantic's "guaranteed protection" whereby they (Symantic) would somehow pay to have his PC repaired, that he installed the software and then assumed (in my opinion, correctly) that he had nothing else to worry about.

Obviously I can't comment on any claims made by Symantec about their products, other than to say that personally I always treat any claims or promises made by a salesman with the deepest of scepticism.

He was subsequently infected by what seemed to be a very common malware issue that IMHO should have been caught and neutralized by the AVS. (and subsequently was by MalwareBytes excellent software)

I have to admit that I've never been a great fan of Symantec's products. Malwarebytes is very effective at what it does, and is a program that I use and recommend, but it is limited in scope, and should be used in conjunction with an AV program, not instead of one.

I have recently dealt with 4 different infected computers. Each of these PC's had various anti-malware programs installed including McAfee, Norton and Webroot. Despite this so-called virus protection each of these PC's was infected with a ton of adware and 2 had trojans. Do ANY of these apps do ANYTHING to protect ones PC??

I think it is a bit like driving a new car with all the bells and whistles. You can be in one that has front, rear even side air bags, you can have your seat belt on but ultimately it comes down to how you drive the car. All the protection installed might save your life in an accident but does not mean there will not be bumps, bruises, scratches and dents along the way. Some accidents will be self inflicted due to lack of judgment, education or experience and others due to actions outside of your control, but ultimately regardless of the cause the outcome in most cases will be better when there is some level of protection around you.

As GaryR said in previous discussions on this type of subject, most Users have an unrealistic expectation of what level of protection to expect from an AV or AS program.

Again think of a car, it would be unrealistic to expect that just because you are wearing a seatbelt etc that drinking, texting, speeding etc is safe. Things can and do go wrong, sadly all too often. We have to, as individuals be responsible for our actions and that includes using what is available to lessen the ‘carnage’ but more importantly we have to be aware of what is around us and relearn how to ‘think’ for ourselves instead of solely relying on others, which in my opinion is what too many people do these days.

To all responders,

Thanks much for your comments to my original post. I have had some success in dealing with what I would characterize as fairly minor malware issues and I always learn a lot examining the posts on this website.

Again, I say, thanks for being there for so many folks that have had some of the most devastating attacks on their PC's.

I have noticed that many of them have fallen to the peer-to-peer type of attack and your making them aware of the incredible risks of using this kind of software is, in itself, a great service to the uninformed.

Jim